Desktop Zooming WTF
Two things that really bug me about the KDE4 desktop proper. These observations are based on what I found in the Suse KDE4 Live CD (4.0.61 snapshot) but the same is true for the KDE4 packages in Kubuntu.
1. What am I zooming and where is my wallpaper?
So when I first heard about the zooming desktop and saw Aaron demonstrate it at the release party, I thought “way cool”. Finally, someone has done something with zooming beyond the eye candy and nausea that is useful.
Unfortunately, I have yet to figure out how to get the damn thing to work or what it is supposed to do. Originally, I thought the different zones of the desktop were related to virtual desktops, and when you zoomed out, you could see the hidden desktops because you have more room on the screen. Then I realized that the virtual desktops and applications were independent of what was being zoomed, and the zooming seems to only apply to Plasmoids. What purpose is there for zooming Plasmoids which are already scalable? Was the impression of multiple desktops a goal or an accident?
Is this really how it is supposed to work out of box (i.e. require a certain amount of configuration before it “just works”) or is it one of those things still “under construction”? See below for what I mean. I suspect it is not really broken and I just can not figure it out, but that is a problem in itself. You can add and move Plasmoids to other parts of the screen (including white space) but I couldn’t figure out how to apply my missing wallpaper or what configuration settings were available (I didn’t find anything relevant in System Settings).
What are we zooming and why? What defaults do we need in place to prevent this impression of “brokeness” you get from missing desktop wallpaper? Where are the configuration options?
2. Zoom the content, not the controls
I think this is a common complaint and could be nominated for a Daily WTF. As you can see in the above screenshots, as the desktop scales, the controls scale with it. So when you have a tiny desktop, you get tiny controls to match. So tiny that you can not activate, read, or click them to make the desktop big again.
I’m sure the exact size of the original target was carefully considered to make it easy for users to Add Widgets or Zoom Out their desktop. Why throw all of those considerations out the door when the interface gets smaller? The size of the controls should never change (at least to a point). Currently the controls scale with the desktop surface, so if the desktop is zoomed out to 25%, the controls are now 25% of their original size. And that is only for the first zoom step!
Consider maintaining the original size of the controls in each zoom step, or use smart scaling so that when the desktop is 1/16 of its original size (zoom out step 2), the controls are still readable and clickable. See below.
Related Bug 154485
Comments? Point 1 is more of a call for help, where 2 is a you-best-fix-this-now suggestion.
seele :: Feb.21.2008 :: General, KDE/Kubuntu :: 21 Comments »
I think it’s still “under construction”. There’s a little bit information about it here:
http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/FAQ#What_is_the_Zooming_User_Interface_.28ZUI.29.3F
Aaron has also blogged about it:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/07/desktop-zooming.html
Celeste -
I have been reading your blog for some time now and I have always enjoyed your professionalism and insights into Linux and KDE. I even applauded when you spoke out about some of your more interesting encounters (Your open letter to the Open Source Community.)
However, never once in the year and a half that I have been reading your blog have I laughed at your entries. I always assumed you had a sense of humor but never saw it come out till now. I must say this side of you I liked seeing.
Alas I wish I could help you in your plight but I do not use KDE4 at this time since its really in early adopter phase and not really ready for my needs as of yet. (I do a lot of business on my laptop and I need it productivity stable.)
I enjoyed this particular entry very much. Hopefully we will see more of your more humorous side again.
Shaun Marolf (a.k.a. Technoshaun)
Hey Celeste, I am unable to help you however my thoughts were exactly the same (virtual desktop pager that doesn’t work WTF) so I posted on Aaron’s blog and he told me that he would be doing a demonstration video to explain all but only when the desktop was a little more feature complete, apparently a timeline feature is being developed that will make it useful.
I understand you are good at suggesting GUI improvements in terms of usability. Some people have had some concerns over ’system settings’ (which I share (a section entitled ‘computer administration’ is apparently different from ’system administration’ hmmmm how so)) so I was wondering if you ever felt the urge - post some much needed direction.
“Was the impression of multiple desktops a goal or an accident?”
It breaks my heart, but it appears that was an accident. The “Desktop Grid” effect is unrelated to the Plasma zooming thing, and the effect of zooming out to see a larger meta-desktop is just an effect; everything is still restricted to virtual desktops.
(Conversation with developer about Desktop Grid paradigm)
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3223
As for the Plasma zoom in/zoom out thing and Point 2, I’d love an explanation too. It’s really weird!
The weird thing for me is that the zoom feature was there in the betas, then it was briefly removed, probably because it wasn’t ready.. But then it was put back in, in the same broken state as before! If it’s not ready (which it obviously isn’t), then why was it put back in? It doesn’t make any sense.
The weird thing for me is that the zoom feature was there in the betas, then it was briefly removed, probably because it wasn’t ready.. But then it was put back in, in the same broken state as before! If it’s not ready (which it obviously isn’t), then why was it put back in? It doesn’t make any sense.
The observation about virtual desktops is a good one. The average person can’t even visualize the virtual spaces present in a virtual desktop, and now there is two levels of virtual spaces? 4 desktops and 3 zoom levels on each desktop… But one of these virtual spaces manages windows and the other manages plasmoids? Holy cow, talk about confusing.
Nice article!
1)
Don’t really know, I’d guess it’s still simply *not working*
2)
I’d hoped that the entire Desktop+Applications were zoomable. The ZUI limited to Plasmoids it as useless as it can get IMHO, while being able to also zoom the apps could be a killer feature.
David Reveman, of Compiz fame, demoed something like a complete desktop ZUI + input redirection last year. You’d basically be able to work on your resized windows while zooming them in and out.
Tried to contact Aaron on that? I hear he’s pretty proud about what this ZUI thing can be, and I would too ;)
I will don’t see how/why is it useful, IMHO this feature should be removed. IMHO there are features I expect from the “desktop” that Plasma is not doing for me.
Since reading others posts I have got it but I think Felipe has summed up my impression. Desktop widgets aren’t really useful alone as they really only provide information quickly (some exceptions but wont compete with full applications) but application sets instead of/with widgets sounds quite useful for most (not me but others I imagine). I already use virtual desktops to house different application sets so I’m already catered for but the ability to save desktop layouts like what is already available (in conjunction with Karamba) at exit would have solved this better without the need for Plasma. Still I’ll wait for Aaron to complete his master plan because he seems to have direction.
The zooming user interface as is in Plasma is very very far from finished; IIRC the ‘zoom’ button was actually removed in the release of 4.0.*
The effect you observed of the buttons scaling is indeed not intended.
[…] leggerebbe la mia risposta qui e in italiano, ma vi invito a riflettere su quanto ha scritto oggi Celeste “ma cmq è fidanzata” Paul sulla caratteristica ufficialmente più inutile di KDE 4. Per […]
glad I’m not the only one scratching my head over this.
So, it looks like it’s only supposed to zoom in and out on groups of plasmoids, and it looks like it’s broken. Is it just me, or does that seem useless twice over? Don’t get me wrong, the concept of plasmoids seems great, but the only ones I’m using right now are the substitutes for the KDE3 panel functionality.
seems like 1) it shouldn’t be included yet, 2) since it’s a new, “groundbreaking” feature there should be an explanation of what it is and what it practically slapping you in the face when KDE4 starts, and 3) someday they ought to integrate it with virtual desktops. Task-A-oriented plasmoids should be able to get grouped with Task-A-oriented applications, and so on.
:|
(compiz user)
http://rchi.raskincenter.org/index.php?title=Text_Specification
Maybe this one is intresting for you….
relax! it’s very much under construction. I was working on it on tuesday; there was a thread on panel-devel the other day where I was discussing how to finally get it implemented.
I’m busy playing tourist right now, but give me… maybe a week, two at most, and it will start to make sense, I promise. :) I’ll blog about it once I get some stuff working. everything in your post should be answered then.
relax! it’s very much under construction. I was working on it on tuesday; there was a thread on panel-devel the other day where I was discussing how to finally get it implemented.
I’m busy playing tourist right now, but give me… maybe a week, two at most, and it will start to make sense, I promise. :) I’ll blog about it once I get some stuff working. everything in your post should be answered then.
[thank god for qdbusviewer… I almost lost this post because your captcha upsets akregator, then I realised it was in klipper… but my klipper systray icon is missing, so I went in through dbus to get it back.]
I’m fixing #1 right now, ok? :-)
@the entire plasma team: thanks for the feedback both here, and on IRC and the plasma mailing list. it’s good to see everyone working together and discussion options and getting work done!
ehm, sorry, that was 2.
Anway, I just fixed it, it’s in SVN.
The Genesis of a Plasma patch…
At one day, there was a patch. The patch was small and in early development, and it was posted to the Plasma review board. A couple of minutes later, the patch was rejected. Many reasons were given: The patch didn’t have the right intention, it would …
[…] on the net and get the recommendation to rm -rf ~/.kde. I spent the rest of the day enjoying the other blog about the “break your desktop” button and the followup, which was particularly funny. Unfortunately I cannot link that one anymore […]