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GRUB User Interface — First Design Stages

33 Responses to “GRUB User Interface — First Design Stages”

1. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:07 pm1Krzysztof Lichota

   “If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?”
   1. Preferred system to load (”default” option).
   2. Boot options.

   “What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?”
   1. “acpi=…” and similar for making hardware work
   2. nosplash
   3. init=/bin/bash or runlevel

   “Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?”

   See above.

   “In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?”

   How to install it into some partition/MBR.

   HTH

2. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:25 pm2gfdsa

   1. mostly: default option, boot params, adding/removing kernels
   2. video,init.root,acpi … a lot…
   3. Most difficult is to understand how grub launched under linux sees disks order differently from grub launched by BIOS

3. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:27 pm3Maxilys

   It was about time! I wish it was released the day before yesterday. (See my blog.)

   Another case where a GRUB UI would be useful: When your install a new harddisk and want to boot on it.

   I’m far from a non-technical user but I really had a hard time and cold sweats. Informations about GRUB always contains scary words like “corrupted disk”, “unable to boot”, etc.

   I wondered how can anybody ever get experimented in tweaking GRUB –except its developers– since nobody ever touches GRUB’s configuration more than once every two or three years, even less. A GUI would be more than welcomed.

   If a Curses version of this GUI existed for the worst cases, we’d get very close from heaven. I’d prefer not to use GRUB or its mini-CLI… ever! If possible…

4. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:35 pm4Aron Stansvik

   * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?

   a) Added a new OS as a boot option (FreeBSD, Windows)
   b) Changed the displayed named of a boot option
   c) Enabled the chain loading thing to be able to boot Windows
   d) Enabled the “use last booted as default” option (missing from your list).

   * What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?

   None that I know of. Unfortunately I’m in FreeBSD now and can’t reach my Linux partitions where the GRUB configuration is. But if I have any kernel options, they are the default ones for Kubuntu (no kernel options for my FreeBSD kernel).

   * Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?

   None.

   * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?

   a) How to install into some partition/MBR.
   b) The naming of hard drives/partitions that it uses.

   Regarding configuration for non-technical; What I did once was set up GRUB to book very fast and not show any menu be default for my mom, since she wanted Windows to boot straight away (but I needed GRUB there to boot a FreeBSD system on another disk).

   Regards,
   Elvis

5. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:38 pm5technoshaun

   Everyone seems to have covered the technical aspects but no one mentioned the fun aspect; grubsplash. It would be nice to be able to select the grubsplash screen as well, not just turn it off. As someone who likes to keep changing things that would be a nice little feature.

   Just my 2 bits.

   Shaun

6. on 22 Nov 2006 at 12:51 pm6Eike hein

   > If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?

   I self-compile my kernels and the file names of my kernel images include their version and revision number, hence I need to modify the grub menu accordingly. Related to that, I regularly change the default system that is booted automatically after the configurable timeout, and have tweaked that timeout value over time. I also enjoy giving the available boot choices descriptive names.

   > What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?

   The framebuffer video driver and resolution parameters for high-resolution console support.

   > Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?

   All of them. My grub configuration is hand-written. I would find a good GUI (and not necessarily one that conveys the entire wealth of options) quite valueable however, especially for supporting systems deployed among friends and family. In those cases, naming and boot default after timeout would be especially important.

   > In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?

   Device and partition numbering / calling conventions differ from Linux’.

7. on 22 Nov 2006 at 1:02 pm7ingo wagener

   > If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?

   timeout, colours, background image, just playing around :)

   > In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?

   definitely the different naming conventions between linux and grub - ubuntu forums are full of confused people…

8. on 22 Nov 2006 at 1:14 pm8shiny

   > If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
   Timeout, video mode, default

   > In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
   Syntax, stages.

   >GRUB configuration for a non-technical user
   Changing default, renaming title, removing safe mode and memtest

9. on 22 Nov 2006 at 1:38 pm9Kollum

   I use mandriva which comes whith a bootloader configuration GUI.
   Perhaps it’s not the best designed, but it is alwready able to modify LILO an GRUB settings.
   You may be searching for something already there.
   This tool should be GPLed as Mandriva claim to DEVELOP only free software

   It’s part of the Mandriva controle center.
   There seems to be a C ( Probably GTK ) and a Perl version.
   Two of the devs are : daouda@mandriva.com
   tvignaud@mandriva.com

   I hope it can help for inspiration / fork

10. on 22 Nov 2006 at 1:45 pm10Bistentou

    Well, I confirm the “last OS booted” is pretty useful and would be more thought about if an explicit option of a GUI…

    I’m looking forward this wonderful GRUB conf GUI !

11. on 22 Nov 2006 at 2:22 pm11kusi

    1) boot from new kernel (new boot entry)
    2) acpi=… (not necessary anymore), nonetwork runlevel
    3) default boot entry
    4) default boot entry (name instead of number better). winxp

12. on 22 Nov 2006 at 2:40 pm12califdreas

    If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    Default OS, Timeout, loaded kernel/initrd image.

    What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    only the very basic stuff like changing the screen resolution and ordering of the harddisks.

    Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    I changed them manually because the defaults didn’t work for me.

    >In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    What to do when you power on your pc and all you get is the GRUB prompt.

    btw, thanks for the link to the kernel parameters. I’ve been trying to get a list of these magical words for quite some time ;)

13. on 22 Nov 2006 at 2:46 pm13Daniel D.

    If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?

    Time out, added init 3 mode, default entry.

    Even though that might require suport for it on other operating systems, I would really like “make last booted OS default” possible. All my accounting soft in on windows, and Hibernating > restart brings me Linux if I am not attentive.

    What I wouldn’t like is what Osuse does - if linux was suspended2disk - it never actually prompts for grub choices and goes directly into Linux. (I understand the thought, but is really stiks) So, whatever you guys come up with, don’t be like osuse. :)

14. on 22 Nov 2006 at 4:05 pm14Jakob Petsovits

    * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?

    a) the order of the boot menu entries, and together with that, the default boot selection. If you haven’t done so already, please read my comment at your
    ‘(K)UDS Summary’ blog entry, I think it should be changed by default.
    b) the timeout.
    c) I put in my own splashscreen. which is not something that everyone does, however, everyone can get the grub-splashimages package and set the splashimage property to one of those.
    d) deleted the “savedefault” command from the Windows boot entry, although I believe it’s not effective by default. I think you need to create some file or directory before the savedefault stuff works. I think (K)ubuntu did not yet do this automatically, which I am grateful for :)

    * What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?

    root=/dev/sda3 ro quiet splash
    which is the standard one.

    * Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?

    None, the defaults work great for me. Does it even make sense to change anything in the menu.lst when the Debian automagic kernel generator dismisses it anyways for the next installed kernel?

    * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?

    How to get it back if Windows was reinstalled and wrote a new MBR without asking. You might want to consider a “GRUB recovery tool” on the LiveCD.

    Also, if you provide a menu.lst editor, make sure to tell the users that they should remove older kernel entries by uninstalling the kernel package, _not_ just removing the boot entry in GRUB, because it will be regenerated. That’s inside the menu.lst in form of comments, but your tool will likely not show those, so you need to tell them otherwise.

15. on 22 Nov 2006 at 4:06 pm15Luca Beltrame

    I confirm the existence of this tool: it’s called drakboot, and it’s written using Perl-GTK. It’s also GPLed.

16. on 22 Nov 2006 at 4:48 pm16apol

    I’ve seen some distros that have good looking grub interfaces (with pixmaps and so), I think it can be done in grub, it would be nice to be able to change it in the gui.

    I’d like too a way to relate the hd(x,x) stuff with the hdd content or the /dev device, I’ve find it difficult to relate some times…

    I like this project idea… is there any chance to contribute?

17. on 22 Nov 2006 at 5:04 pm17Paul

    I always hated that Ubuntu added 2 new kernel entries to the top of the list every time there’s a new kernel package. When you dual-boot, it auto-detects windows, and adds it to the bottom of the list.

    After a few months of kernel upgrades it takes a lot of down-arrowing to get to Windows. About the only time I edit menu.lst is to remove the older kernel entries. But maybe this would be better off in the kernel package, ie, only have the latest two ubuntu kernels in the list, and auto-remove the others.

    Having an easy way to add/remove (or even disable/comment out) entries would be nice.

18. on 22 Nov 2006 at 6:35 pm18Cantay Offical Web Site »

    […] Şu sayfada genel anlamda GRUB önbilgisi verilmiş ve hangi durumlarda GRUB arayüzünde manuel düzenleme gerekebileceği tartışılmış. […]

19. on 22 Nov 2006 at 8:09 pm19Parker Coates

    The trickiest thing about configuring GRUB is figuring out which drive/partition is which. The last to incarnations of the Ubuntu installer improperly identified the order of my hard disks. I have two IDE and one SATA drives. The installer thought (hd0,0) was the first IDE drive while GRUB thinks the SATA drives was. When I first ran into the problem I had to resort to trial and error to figure out which device had which GRUB drive number.

    The other reason I’ve had to edit menu.lst is remapping drives for Windows. I have Windows installed on (hd1,0) but it will only boot if it thinks it’s on the first hard disk. I therefore have to “map (hd0,0) (hd1,0)” and “map (hd1,0) (hd0,0)”. Ideally this should be detected at install and fixed setup from the start, but that has nothing to do with your project. I have no idea how one could write a GUI for remapping drives, but it’s probably a rare enough occurance that it would be necessary.

20. on 22 Nov 2006 at 8:42 pm20kris

    *If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    add my new kernel entry

    *What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    currently I have removed “silent or was it quiet” “splash” and added vga=normal because usplash does not support 1280×800 resolution (only 4:3 aspect ratios as I understand)

    *Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    uncommented pretty colors and commented hiddenmenu cause pretty is a feature!

    *In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    vga= values; partition order (naming; why it isn’t sda1 but hd0,0?)

21. on 23 Nov 2006 at 5:29 am21Benjamin Meyer

    If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    - Change the default boot kernel

22. on 23 Nov 2006 at 5:50 am22SacRat

    * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    In my experience of a person who just experiments a bit with Linux the most frequent operations are setting a default OS in boot sequence and changing the names of available operating systems (mostly because Windows is sometimes referred to as”Other”)

    * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    Messing with config file or dealing with unfriendly (for non-experienced users) commandline of GRUB itself.

23. on 23 Nov 2006 at 10:40 am23fish

    If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    The time till the boot-up starts, default is too long for my taste.

24. on 23 Nov 2006 at 11:26 pm24Mike

    > If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    Usually to modify the order of my kernels, add a new one (in my Gentoo days), and specify parameters on laptops like “vga=791″.

    > What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    Other than (k|x)ubuntu’s defaults just vga=791

    > Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    See previous answer.

    > In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    The way GRUB references hard drives and partitions I found confusing at first. It took a bit getting used to.

25. on 25 Nov 2006 at 5:57 pm25kwilliam

    “In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?”
    The Debian “AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST”. That thing totally screwed with my mind. I ended up deleting the whole thing and editing the entries by hand because I couldn’t find any information on how to use it.

    “If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?”

    1) I use Kubuntu, so I’m really excited about this project! At some point, a kernel upgrade caused my grub entry for Windows XP to disappear, which scared the crap out of me! Thankfully, a backup of menu.lst had been made automatically, and a little copying and pasting got my XP entry back.
    2) Then, I re-did the whole list, because I was sick of it listing 3 different kernels for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I mean, I only had three operating systems installed, I didn’t need seven listed. So I made the “Ubuntu” and “Kubuntu” entries point to just the latest kernel (vmlinuz), inserted a separator, and then made entries that pointed to the second latest kernel (vmlinuz.old).
    3) Having succeeded in those tasks, I felt confident enough to change the color scheme and make it pretty. :-) A graphical background would be even cooler, but figuring out how to configure that would take more energy that it’s worth for me. Now, if I had a GUI and could just pick a wallpaper image, that would be great.

    “What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?”
    What’s a kernel option? I sure am glad I didn’t have to figure that out! (I mostly edited entries by cutting and pasting.)

    “Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?”
    Manually changed: color scheme, default OS, timeout length, entry list.

26. on 03 Dec 2006 at 6:46 am26knopf

    * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    Deleted old entries after ubuntu kernel update, changing the boot countdown.
    * What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    Huh, erm… kernel options? You mean those cryptic entries following each “title”? I really don’t want to mess with those. I either delete a whole entry or leave it as is. I’m scared by those “options”.
    * Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    N.o.n.e.
    * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    Kernel Options. Although they might be related to linux in general and not especially to GRUB, they really do scare me. Editing text files is good for users who know what they are doing - but since I don’t know, I’d rather prefer the fool-proof point’n'click configuration, especially with something that critical as a boot loader.

27. on 05 Dec 2006 at 2:35 pm27Boris Dušek

    1. kernel version (after I copied the image for the new version to /boot/vmlinuz-gentoo-version); then deleting entries of old versions that I don’t want to keep (I have usually at least two versions in case something goes wrong with the one currently in use); the last thing is probably the “default” option specifying which option is preselected at groub startup

    2. root=/dev/hda6 vga=791 video=vesafb:mtrr,ywrap CONSOLE=/dev/tty1 gentoo=nodevfs

    3. I don’t remember if I ever generated a configuration :)

    4. certainly the assignement between (hdx,y)-form of specifying partitions and the real meaning to someone; it was especially hard with my friend’s computer that I installed - he has two disks, on SATA, and I could not get it configured after an hour of trying. I found some tips about remapping devices in device.map (or something like that), but that was so awful and I so much did not understand it that I left it as it was - not configured. The solution was to physically unplug the disk not in use, because on the second disk, there was Windows bootloader and it booted ok.

    Hope this brings some thoughts/suggestions :)

28. on 05 Dec 2006 at 2:44 pm28Non_E

    >>If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    I usually add grub password, spalshimage, default kernel and a timeout.

    >>What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    Init (bootchart) and root.

    >>Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    I wrote it from scratch…

    >>In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB? For a newbie it is probably the disc/partition numbering convention. Pro user may get stuck at setting reasonable fallback/savedefault.

29. on 05 Dec 2006 at 3:26 pm29diverman

    Hi,
    I prefer more advanced software with command-line backend (combining lilo and grub adjustability) and graphical frontend. Communicating would provide some meta-language. So it’s possible to do thinks like `cat /boot/grub/menu.lst | program –to-lilo > /tmp/lilo.conf’. Easy and transparent…

30. on 05 Dec 2006 at 6:30 pm30wake

    * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    kernel options(vga=…, root=…), init ramdisk, NT loader description
    * What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    root, ro, single, video
    * Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    video (replaces vga)
    * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    mu, everything’s easy. perfectly transparent.

31. on 06 Dec 2006 at 2:54 am31myshak

    Hi,

    although I didn’t find editing menu.lst difficult to use some GUI for this, I agree to your opinion, that it could be difficult for beginners. I think that your idea to make some GUI for setting boot options is very good, but don’t you find it a little bit halfway that it will be limited only to grub (and not also to lilo)?

    OK - here are some answers for your qustions:

    * If you ever have had to manually modify GRUB, what did you change?
    Mostly it was some kernel option (vga=, root=, ramdisk_size=),initial ramdisk and password
    * What kernel options do you have configured for your boot entries?
    root, ramdisk_size, video
    * Which of those options did you manually change, rather than accept the generated defaults?
    video resolution
    * In your opinion, what is the most difficult thing to know or understand about GRUB?
    nothing, in my opinion is grub configuration simple and transparent

32. on 05 Jan 2007 at 4:38 am32Partizan Offical Web bL0g » GRUB Kullanıcı Arayüzü Önbilgisi

    […] Şu sayfada genel anlamda GRUB önbilgisi verilmiş ve hangi durumlarda GRUB arayüzünde manuel düzenleme gerekebileceği tartışılmış. […]

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